Ship of Theseus / Project Recap! (EP58)

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    Rebuilding a historic sailing yacht - Ship of Theseus / Project Recap
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    EPISODE 58.
    In this episode, I ask the question “is Tally Ho still the same boat?” ...I explore the ancient philosophical question of The Ship of Theseus, and how that problem applies to this project and also to our understanding of the world in general. While I consider all this, we recap the work that has been done on the boat up until now, starting with when I was first shown Tally Ho in Oregon over 2 years ago.
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    58. Ship of Theseus / Project Recap! (Tally Ho EP58)

    Pubblicato il Anno fa


    1. Chris Debono

      Well I managed to get to 5:45. Way too deep for me

    2. Don Nelson

      You have been sniffing too much sawdust. :-)

    3. Don Nelson

      When is a boat not a boat???

    4. cowetaok

      You leave out something here and that would be the soul. You have went meticulously to keep the soul of the boat and with that you have put your soul into it. I found you by watching a deal on sawmills and it was when you went to Georgia to get wood found you interesting and pulled up the page. I started at episode 1 and have watched everyone in full length to this point I don't jump ahead. I find the boat fascinating You fascinating and your passion fascinating . You have kept its soul put your heart and soul into it and when you put her back to sea the souls of all that have sailed her in the past will be sailing with you. No doubt It is the Tally Ho.

    5. MattJohno2

      15:45 - The Olympic had that fate. Despite being the sister ship of probably two of the most famous ships of all time, she was still laid up and scrapped.

    6. Balthasar 2008

      Yeah, tough philosophic question this. I once asked Kunt von Trepka, who had the iconic 49' 1893 "RS1 Colin Archer" restored from a similar state; Is there really anything left of the original timber after 100 years? (this was ~25 years ago) The question made him somewhat uneasy, and I was thinking is this still *the* Colin Archer? I think it is!

    7. Ed Drake

      It's a residential address.

    8. Jack Mann

      Tally Ho is simply being reborn . . . Maybe we will all get a second chance!

    9. Bean Noneya

      You are quite the opposite of ugly, good gods!

    10. Mathew Benson

      I think a boat or ship’s life is in the continuity of build and the crew. I served on the USS Constellation. I was saddened to see the last bits of her hull cut up for scrap. But I think my shipmates would agree she lives on in our memories. To me, the USS Constellation is still a living and breathing ship. She won’t die until the last of her crew dies.

    11. Phil Stevens

      You're basically using the old boat as a live blueprint to build a new boat.

    12. Benjamin Scoville

      I wish I had this much heart to do something really for the romance of it and not be discouraged by it's absurdity Good luck leo

    13. salvador sierra

      Massive project,and you’re putting your hart and soul in to it, at the end of the day , you’re be coming the new creator of the same boat, your credit comes with the work and final product, in my book this project don’t make since any other way , finish it , that’s my only advice and congratulations 🍾

    14. shaenj

      Well, I'll be gentle and just say it's a smartass question. The boat is what it is today, Tally HO.....full stop. Those that don't believe just ask Leo. He is responsible for Tally Ho's existence If I was Leo I'd just have said Yes, then Next Question?

    15. Alain Pascal


    16. Paul Baker

      Why overthink anything? It is what it is..

    17. Michael Tuckerman

      It doesn't matter how you roll your marbles or crumble your cookies it's a reproduction. If it feels like tally ho to you that's all that matters

    18. Team Phene

      You are a Wayseer ✌

    19. Gary Anthony

      You are making history, and creating a vast interest in boat building.

    20. Bean Noneya

      You've definitely gained a fan in me, I'm hooked! I can't wait to watch all of your videos!

    21. Dennis Kapatos

      Leo, I love your project and everything you've put into it. I don't mean to poke holes in your philosophy or to nitpick any particular point, but I think that this notion that the world is meaningless and that we're all just a collection of subatomic particles which have coincidentally configured themselves into their current state by chance doesn't make sense to me and actually isn't supported by the current scientific consensus of how we understand the functioning of the universe. Physicists have recognized that the values of the fundamental constants which define the physics of how the universe works are inexplicably the precise values that they need to be in order for the universe to be anything other than a chaotic mess. This has lead to questioning how it is possible that these values are so precisely arranged in this way, which has in turn lead many physicists to invent the idea that there is an infinite number of parallel universes in which all these fundamental constants take on every possible combination of values. We just happen to live in the one that works. This imagining of unprovable hypotheses is about as unscientific as it gets, but it's something the physics community has almost universally embraced. Rather than look at these collection of coincidences and see the hand of a divine creator at work, they've made physics into it's own type of religion built around the requirement that a creator must be necessarily designed out. The fact that the fundamental constants are arranged as they are, that humans inhabit the most carefully designed and uniquely habitable part of the galaxy that we do, right down to the idea of the big bang... science continues to confirm that the place created for humans to inhabit has been carefully planned. I'm not here to tell you what to believe, but if you seek the truth it requires examining all the evidence available to you, and the scientific authorities would have you turn your gaze away from those things that point to a creator. I believe in a heavenly creator and I can even feel it not because I want to, but because His imprint was cast into my soul the day He created me. It's as much a part of me as the dust from exploded stars that I'm made from, and it makes it possible for me to feel His presence. And, if there is a heavenly creator, surely He is the one described in the bible. I wish you much success on the exciting Tally Ho project. God bless.

    22. Chris_London

      Very enjoyable and interesting discussion, thanks. A good example of this is iconic St Paul's Cathedral here in London. It's actually the fourth one to have stood on the site. The current one is a complete rebuild. Even though a different size and shape It's still St Paul's. My own feeling is that it's the intention that really matters. You intend 'Tally Ho' to be a restored 'Tally Ho'. If you intended it to be a replica, then that would be a replica.

    23. Ed Konstantellis

      If you find an abandoned Jag xk 120 in a barn, as a total rot, will it be the same after you resurrect and restore it original specifications? Identity of a legend/...object is not dependent on the appearance, but the proper restoring as intended and designed

    24. coug96fan

      Leo: A boat builder and sailor and philosopher. "In reality, the world is a big, massive gloup" and "In a completely meaningless world, what a better thing to do than rebuild and old wooden boat and go sailing!" Ultimately in the end, in my book, did you enjoy what you did and learn something.

    25. Mark Jennings

      Maybe just think of the lead ballast as being the 'soul' of Tally ho and thats still original! Hopefully you can reuse some of the fittings and inset some still viable bits of the real Tally Ho into other structural parts.

    26. Up North Yooper

      Leo, your going to be a good dad someday.

    27. The Man from Epsilon Crucis

      I would do exactly what you are doing. It will always be Tally Ho. People must realise that Tally Ho is an idea, a passion, a dream. The USS Enterprise is a good example - it even became a space ship!

    28. Erin Jones

      Really shouldn’t, and in reality doesn’t matter whether others think Tally Ho is the same boat. The visceral feeling that is evoked when you’re in her presence answers that personal question. My opinion is questioning originality is a recent societal construct, where commercialism has imposed some artificial inflated value on what is considered new and improved. No, nary of these opinions apply to objects formed of love and sweat.

    29. CraigG

      I’m don’t know who the naysayers are, but it’s apparent you’re overthinking it and trying to please or convince someone. Think of it in automotive terms. It’s a restoration. Is it authentic? Yes, As true as it could be. Is the material the exact same? No, but that’s not feasible. But if you’re rebuilding a 1908 model T, you’re not using the same metal either. You are using the original plans with the original “VIN” number and that makes it a restored TallyHo. Why would anyone even consider going thru this fortune and time and not rebuilding all the parts and pieces that need it, to find out a year later that a frame etc had failed. Your use of the original drawings make it everything that it is and supposed to be

    30. jdhalvo

      Vintage auto racing has a similar issue. When a car is wrecked and rebuilt, is it the same car? The answer I've heard is "As long as nobody else can claim to have the car, it is the same car." In this case, nobody else can claim to have the Tally Ho.

    31. Voilier Bagatelle

      You are building a REPLICA of Tally Ho. You do not use the old parts as templates for the new ones, you are building a completely NEW boat according to the PLANS of that model. Even the essence of wood used for building the REPLICA is different than it was on the OLD boat. The original Tally Ho is in pieces, scattered arround the property. So far, you only borrow the keel ballast to put it on your REPLICA. You say you saved her from being scrapped by the boatyard. Well, YOU completely demolish her yourself only to save a few parts. The boatyard must be happy not having to pay some employees for the demolition of the boat and to get rid of the scrap.

    32. HozelRocket

      Tally Ho, 1910 Gaff Cutter. A boat barely alive. Gentlemen, we can rebuild her. We have the technology. We have the capability to re-build her, the 1927 Fastnet Race winner. Tally Ho will be that boat. Better than she was before. Better, stronger, faster.

    33. Solsken Group LLP

      As long as she has one nail from the original, then it's the Tally Ho. You will have numerous things from the original ship.

    34. Mitch Gates

      Brilliant ty man. Watching all ur videos to this point has been absolutely amazing. This one was thought-provoking in a different way.

    35. Michael Dudley Welch

      Regarding whether something is all new or a rebuilt of the old: 1971 my wife bought me a wedding ring. I wore it almost all the time. A few years ago it got simply worn out, and broke. I have decided to cut it up, add some more gold and silver to it, melt it and remake a new ring. As far as I’m concerned, it is the original ring, just as my wife is still my original wife. This November is our 49th wedding anniversary, and 52nd year being together.

    36. Nigel Marston

      It's about continuity for me, and Leo has preserved the continuity of the original by always making sure there is a Tally Ho shape available to look at.

    37. AwakeAmericanow.

      I don't know the exact answer but my understanding of elementary physiology is that the cells which make our bodies are dying and simultaneously replicating by the million continuously. Therefore our identity of self begs many questions. The principle element in the discussion I suppose is identity. Who can argue with the proposition that "in a meaningless world what’s better than building or rebuilding a boat and then go sailing".

    38. Bill

      My grandfather's axe is on its fifth handle and its third head.

    39. S Harvey


    40. Dave Stambaugh

      What about us. Our living bodies are replaced by new cells constantly. It's about the genes or program. You have the essence of the Tally Ho in the plan sets you have.

    41. Thomas Davison

      Leo, After watching the whole process of the framing I was wondering what the difference would be between cutting the frames out of Oak like you did versus creating frames that would have been laminated from thin strips of Oak and then curved in a gig? Is it just to be more traditional in restoring Tally Ho? Cheers

    42. Floyd Mitchell

      LOL. I.m so confused

    43. GrandActionPotential

      To reconcile Theseus is interesting. Identity of object is encultured. For many cultures, an object is the space/form an object occupies. To rebuild the boat, means to replace the parts in the same space as the original material occupies where spatial continuity is preserved. Normally, the original parts in a rebuild are destroyed or reused, reshaped and in some way altered from its identity giving form/space through natural processes or human action. Those original parts no longer exist and identity shifts to those new parts. When they preserved the Theseus, the original parts remained, the identity remained with the originals, meaning they built a copy because they kept the originals. Lloyds of London figured this out a long time ago, and set legal precedence for surface ships. Since the original parts of the Tally Ho are destroyed and no longer preserved as "the Tally Ho", means the identity shifted to the new parts and you rebuilt the Tally Ho.

    44. Kevin McK

      Every cell in every living healthy human body dies and is replaced about every seven years or so, yet the person remains. I think it's safe to say Tally Ho lives on through your project!

    45. nathanael scott

      In keeping with the philosophical aspect of the discussion you could make a case for Tally Ho remaining the same on the basis of Ibn Rushd and his work on Aristotle’s De Anima. Here there is a distinction between matter (the physical substance of the thing in question) and its form (the surrounding ideals relating to the matter). Matter and Form merge into an extant thing (the Tally Ho) as the consequence of the Agent Intellect. For Ibn Rushd the Agent Intellect is the eternal soul through which God moves the individual to create. In the case of Tally Ho you could say that Albert Strange fills the role of God by passing down the knowledge of the ships construction, the form is the ideal Tally Ho, the matter is the wood, and Leo is the agent intellect. Since the idea of Tally Ho is directly linked to Strange through the agent intellect of Leo it can be said to remain coherent irrespective of its matter. P.s. I realize this is potentially blasphemous, so I’ll just say that while I respect Albert Strange’s work, I stop short of deifying him. I just think its an interesting thought experiment.

    46. Spooky 88

      There are plenty of 'restored' WWII war birds getting around that were pulled out of swamps, glaciers or the ocean and fixed up to fly again. By the time all the engines, propellers, corrosion and bent bits are replaced about all that is original is the little 2 inch square manufactures data plate. They are still a WWII fighter and are beautiful to hear over head, but if left where they were they would be lost to time. It appears you went in with the intention to salvage what was good, unfortunately there wasn't much and I certainly wouldn't trust those old keel timbers with my life on a sea voyage. The keel is going back on, so still arising in the manner of a phoenix in my book.

    47. Christopher Pardell

      Take the old teak planking, and run up a hundred Adirondack chairs and auction them to supporters for additional funds.

    48. Rose Ravetz

      I would really love to hear more from you about your perspective and experience of life, specifically in relation to mental health. To do what you have done in the past, and be embarking on this project, seems to speak of a very solid and immovable confidence and trust in your self, and of a lot of courage. I have a somewhat similar story to you and now work and live in the traditional boat world, in fact I am also currently restoring a boat (albeit a very different boat to Tally Ho). However, I have struggled massively with a lack of confidence, anxiety and fear, which has so often held me back. It is easier to theorise about how one can be fully authentic, confident and at ease in life, than to live that reality moment to moment. You speak so candidly, and clearly enjoy thinking philosophically and conscientiously. I'd be so interested to hear of your own experience, and if you have ever struggled with mental health issues.

    49. serkan yilmaz

      That is Tally Ho.

    50. jocofi

      I’m a new follower catching up fast. But is Leo the little bald boy from The Matrix movie, there is no spoon.

    51. Toby Druce

      Sour dough and mole both have traces of the original batch. I think the continuity of a piece is the key, not the age of its parts. Tally Ho hasn't stopped being Tally Ho as pieces have been replaced in mind. My bits and pieces have been largely replaced every 7 years or so but I don't feel I have stopped being me.

    52. The Island Workshop

      its like the Only fools and horses sketch, triggers broom

    53. CaptainAhorn

      What is a boat turned upside down? A house.

    54. John Paul

      My uncle, a master carpenter, had a mallet it had had 5 new heads and 3 new handles but it was the same mallet. Repairing, properly, does not change the item. Using different materials and/or changing the design may make it different but keeping to the spirit of the original is, I think, what matters.

    55. AgPilot 497

      I'm late to the party; just catching up on the whole series. I almost skipped this one but I'm glad I didn't. Thanks for doing this mid project recap and talking about these things. I had the same questions. When I decided to restore a 130 year old house. The thing about the philosophical questions is that there are no right or real answers. I'm glad you are comfortable and happy with your own answers. Keep up the great work! Another year and I'll be waiting for each new episode

    56. Adumbration of an alias

      You are already making history by documenting this rebuild!

    57. Morpheus

      It's a replica. not the same boat, you are not even using the same materials as the original. if I had a sword, it would be unique even if there were another thousand made to similar shape size and weight, if I took that sword and melted it down and reformed it looks like what I had before smelted it, it would be a different sword because all the imperfections and structure, and characteristics of the first the originals were lost despite both being made from the same metal

    58. dr jay

      Confucius once said, "Man with hole in the pocket ...feels cocky all day "...... also" man whom stands on the toilet ....high on pot"

    59. Calum Hunter

      Thank you for addressing this 'question', well done. You just stepped into my area. Philosophically, see Heraclitus: "No man ever steps into the same river twice." There is also his stroppy student's reply. (me?) IMPORTANT WORD FOR YOU: PALIMPSEST. Architecturally - look at the different ways in which Italy and Ingerland handle artifacts. Italy wins.

    60. Colin

      Well, that's about half my philosophy degree course condensed into an 18-minute video about boatbuilding...

    61. Patrik Gustafsson

      Seeing this recap I'm amazed and impressed you still have the workethic to keep going even though the cost must be astronomically higher then first planned. On the philosophical question of the ship of Theseus I think all people have a bias when discussing it. It is very difficult not to have a bias in such a theoretical question. I for example am a Archaeologist at a National maritime museum so my bias is strongly skewed towards keeping items as they are found as much as possible. That however is not the point in this case. You could make the argument that by changing every part of Tally Ho you give her a new chance to aquire new agency or character and ad to her history. Just as you touch on it is a question of perspective depending on what person you yourself are and therefor a meaningless question. Keep up the amazing work and I'm looking forward to bingewatch alot more episodes that I have left until cought up.

    62. John Dunlap

      I would enjoy seeing Leo's philosophical side more often.

    63. Alan Wooldridge

      Only Fools and Horses covered this concept I have found this channel in the last month and I'm in the process of catching up from the start.

    64. David Thormodsgard

      For those who say she is not the same boat, I would pose the question, When did she stop being Tally Ho? Was it when the centerline was replaced? the frames? Is it a new boat with pieces of a former one on it, or an old boat with new life breathed into it?

    65. Jeffrey Perkins

      What words were used about 14:30? Resplacing all the szz???

    66. Steve Miller

      Leo, getting deep man! Keep up your awesome work!

    67. John Arrington


    68. Catherine Hackett

      She is such a gorgeous creature and it brings joy to see her rejuvenated. I agree that she is still definitely Tally Ho. It almost seems like I can see her breathing again. Thank you for all the hard work and love that you and your volunteers have put into her.

    69. Fat Bastard Pipes

      It's the thought that counts. 🍻

    70. Steve Uphill

      If you brought Tally Ho home parked it up and made a copy, then you would have a copy. But to bring it home and replace all you need to bit by bit then it is the Tally Ho, just that all those years of up keep happened in an abrieviated time period. Love your work and your skill, but above all your endless dedication to a mamoth project. 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧

    71. kymcha

      IMO wrt the Ship of Theseus argument, the rebuilt Tally Ho is the same (to me). One can take advantage of modern technology along the way (power tools, modern alloys for bolts, modern sail fabric, etc) without compromising Tally Ho's heritage at all. I think the idea of re-using a couple of original deck planks, if possible, is a nice visual 'nod' to the original builders too.

    72. 4themusiclovers

      You are thinking extremely deeply about the question of identity, and I fully agree with your organic conception of it. Your relational rather than distinctive conception on identity is beautiful and carries a sense of life that can be felt shining in each of your videos. Thank you very much for all of this. I'm happy to have crossed your road, if only on youtube!

    73. Delll

      You sound like trigger from only fools and horses talking about the same broom he has had for thirty years, Then saying he has change the pole and brush several times.

    74. Jordan Barg

      I discovered this thought experiment when I came to this question for myself when I started your series recently. Thank you for addressing it so eloquently. I have gain some new perspective that I haven’t considered before. It’s quite insightful to know your thoughts on the matter watching you work.

    75. Ein Mensch

      Seems WE need to create "identity" in our heads, while acting/living we don't need that, but aims, purpose and accomplishment.

    76. Pootsman

      Ultimately, who cares, I'm only just catching up but I guess it's all pretty much going to be new, but whether replica, new boat, same boat, it looks awesome and you are doing an amazing job!

    77. Rev. David Willerup

      My body replaces all of its cells every seven years. I’m still me.

    78. philip Brailey

      Still the same boat to me. Tally Ho is Tally Ho.

    79. philip Brailey

      I couldn’t care less. As long as YOU follow your dreams.

    80. Mr CMH

      We are but a point of awareness in a cosmic field of consciousness.

    81. Plane Man

      I rebuild turboprop aircraft engines and sometimes if enough bad things have happened the only original part is the data tag with the serial number and part number of the original engine and log book which chronacles the work that has been done. So I agree with Leo, it still is the Tally Ho. So carry on mate, you are an inspiration to us all.

    82. kentblairl

      I think you just set the bar very high for Ship of Theseus conversations. Huzzah TALLY HO!

    83. Kevin Michael Callihan Sr.

      Making history and going to the farthest ends of the oceans is well thought out by this builder. Keen mind at work. Thank you, kindly.

    84. Kevin Michael Callihan Sr.

      Relativity defined here.

    85. Kevin Michael Callihan Sr.

      I love it!

    86. Milton Miller

      What a great video, and amazing choice of subject. I will be thinking about it for a while.

    87. John Fahey

      The heart and the soul of Tally will live for the next 100 + years because of your dedication and hard work. ‘Nuff said. Thank you Leo and thanks to all the volunteers!

    88. Jim Wicks

      While a very interesting discussion, I fall back to my own experience. I overhauled several navy ships during my naval career. Two submarines I served on had their entire front end of the ship replaced. The Hull name and number did not change. On a personal level, I've had both knees replaced. I do not feel impelled to change my name and my personality remains. Returning a hull to the lines she was intended to fill is the right thing to do in an age where we have advanced precision far beyond a quarter inch. I for one think you're doing the right thing.

    89. Pavel Komarov

      The notion of change is built in to identity. I say something can be considered to have the same identity even if it's not literally the same thing. Like you said, it's all about making the world easier to compute. The Ship of Theseus is meant to take that intuition to the limit. In most cases it's much clearer how to chunk the world from the "gloop" in such a way that it improves our reasoning power and hence our survivability.

    90. PJ Bassman

      I love the idea of repurposing removed pieces to incorporate into the Tally Ho elsewhere. Her spirit never left this fine boat and never will.

    91. Foredeck Doctor

      The history is in the structure.....not the materials.

    92. Shaun Marsh

      Wow DEEP! So deep infect I had to go out and don a satiation dive kit! So meany comments I'm not even going to try and read them all I have taken a sample here and there. All I can say is Triggers broom! here's a link for those who have no idea what that means If you look at the restoration world of cars trucks and planes for example you will see that they think of the object as still being the original with very little of the whole being present in the finished restoration project I found this channel two weeks ago and have been binge watching since and now I have Finns channel as well. Having got to EP 56 I still consider it to be the Tally Ho as it has been centre stage (when it can get in front of the parrot ;-) through out it has history it has caricature and a presence but most of all it's what you think and feel you are now quite literally part of it now as you have put your blood, sweat and tears into and we must not forget the 1/2" of finger

    93. Jerry Baird

      An intelligent and articulate young man. To me it’s the same Tally Ho for so many reasons of design.

    94. Ian Power

      only fools and horses...trigger...I've had the same brush for 15 years, I,ve replaced the head twice and then I,ve replaced the essence it still is the same brush he started with

      1. Galerak

        Actually it was 20yrs with 17 new heads and 14 new handles. I was going to write the same comment, glad I noticed yours before I posted it lol

    95. Jack Hubley

      Before reading any other of the opinions I will put in my 5 cents worth. The ship you (Leo) first looked at under the tarp was undoubtedly the Tally Ho. The same ship was hauled to your location and blocked up. When the keel was replaced it would still have been considered the Tally Ho. When 9 pairs of frames were replaced they were fitted to the Tally Ho. When the rest of the frames were replaced they were replaced on the same keel as the first 9 pairs so this must still be the Tally Ho. At no time did you sell the Tally Ho. It wasn't stolen, burned or otherwise lost so the only place the Tally Ho can be is right where you left it. You have painstakingly replaced each piece with ones that are as close to the drawings as possible even to the point of restoring the original lines of the ship. At no time has this ever been referred to by anything other than the Tally Ho and you at the very least bought the rights to the Tally Ho and when finished this will have the strongest claim to the name of any vessel in the world therefore this is the Tally Ho.

    96. Heid Bumbee

      I only just started watching this project a few days ago it's addictive. I agree with your human body analogy " when you look at your reflection in a mirror nothing of what you see existed the day you were born and nothing of what you see will exist in 10 - 15 years when you look again. Everything, bone, organ or brain cell is entirely replaced over time. Granted the cell replacement is individual cells over time but imagine if you woke from a coma after 15 years. Nothing of what you look at in your reflection existed before you went in to the coma but it is still you. There is also a scientific theory that there is only on atom! One atom whizzing about the cosmos making up everything that exists.

    97. Allen Hale

      Life became easier and happier for me when I started listening to my wife, a devout Buddhist... "Darling, you think think too much!". Your boat is whatever you want it to be. Your boat by any other name will be just as precious and meaningful to you.

    98. Leo Schultz

      Realizing he had finally met his match, Socrates turned around and walked silently out of the boatyard.

    99. Henry Robinson

      You do you Leo, it will always be Tally Ho!

    100. Sabrina Kane

      Our bodies actually do not completely replace over our lives, the cardiomyocyte heart cells you are born with are the ones you die with barring any transplants. I'm sure there are other select cells that do not turn over. So there's that.